Jugger Spain - Falange thread

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Statler
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Re: Jugger Spain - Falange thread

Beitrag von Statler » Mo 7. Nov 2011, 18:00

Raymond hat geschrieben:For me, nobody should use a sport as a platform for any political ideas, opinions or statements.
Thats a quite good example for a political statement! :pfeifen:
###hobbitz###
>>> Silver Horde <<<<

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Guardian
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Re: Jugger Spain - Falange thread

Beitrag von Guardian » Di 8. Nov 2011, 07:13

Ein Uhu hat geschrieben:Might I add: Same must apply to any other team, of any country, showing right-wing or racist symbolism and positions as well.
Or any extremist position?
(I already had a short exchange with waldorf, if it’s better, to be left-wing extremist, or right-wing extremist, but I’m not with him)
As Raymond said, there is no space for any statement like that in sports…

Just for excursing the political/history-thing:
I understand… or I know about the prudence, Germany needs to display about their history... but me, as an individual can’t feel guilty for history that was made over 60 years ago, just as I cannot feel guilty for the Inquisition, just because I’m Christian…

But I CAN take a stand against extremist position, what I will do… I would never play against any team, that dares to show or represent any sign or position, what seems to limit someone in his freedom.
Just as postet before...
statler hat geschrieben:Also we could make clear, that no german team will ever play against team Falang [...]
But this is nothing about any history, but my own claim...
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waldorf
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Re: Jugger Spain - Falange thread

Beitrag von waldorf » Di 8. Nov 2011, 17:24

it happened as i thought.
the so called liberal extremism critique. tell me where exactly are the similarities between left and right, and don't say soviet union or violence. did you ever meet a left winger with a white supremacist ideology?
i am actually not surprised who of the german jugger community got this opinion., not at all.
one thing to say about guilt. yes, you are not guilty, for what happened in this dark times (3.reich or inquisition) but you do HAVE a responsibility that it never happens again as a christian as a german and more important as a human. there is NO way out.
but ok. if you guys got no opinion about that, just repeat history.
treat 'em nicely, i won't.
i do know why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuOQasXpdcs
greetz
Hx
Zuletzt geändert von waldorf am Di 8. Nov 2011, 18:04, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

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Re: Jugger Spain - Falange thread

Beitrag von Guardian » Di 8. Nov 2011, 18:03

waldorf hat geschrieben:[...]but you do HAVE a responsibility that it never happens again as a christian as a german
This is, what I will do... this is, what i HAVE to do... I'm totally with you... But in fact, I think, that this is a way, which is needed to be lived all over, not only in germany...
I'm against any violence... That's what I will stand for... Not for the extremists and not for them who fight them... (What wing ever There NEED to be different ways...
Don't ask me for the right way, because I have no answer...

Oh and one more...
Waldorf...
i just called your name, because I asked you about your opinion... that was not ment to be against your opinion for the whole thing!!!
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Re: Jugger Spain - Falange thread

Beitrag von waldorf » Di 8. Nov 2011, 18:10

sure, everywhere!!!!
that was the reason i put "as a human" at the end.
and sometimes you need to fight and take a stand, for freedom for equality for wisdom for a better mankind.
thanx to all the people who did suffered and never gave up.
no thanx to the rest
greetz
Hx
@ hahn
where do you get this "kloppe"? i just checked the IKEA in kiel. sold out!

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Re: Jugger Spain - Falange thread

Beitrag von HL Alvaro » Mi 9. Nov 2011, 05:24

Thanks to all for your comments and your ideas.
Raymond hat geschrieben:A team who use such a political motivated teamname or use sportclothes with political motivated signs isn´t within the meaning of sportsmanship. Especially when it contains racist or facist elements.
I would like to ask you Raymond, if you don't mind: where the team to quit all the political symbols, names, etc would you accept them? I mean, you already know what they think, how they are and what's up to them... is it enough to change the cover? (I ask Raymond, but anybody is welcome to answer as well, although I think I know the answer of a couple of you)

I've been reading all the posts here, and (besides my opinion and whether I agree with you) I will bring this to the meetings in Spain. Actually we have a meeting in Zaragoza and this one, I assume, will be one of the main topics.

@Hendrik:
Word to Alvaro: you should be more careful what kind of teams you allow to compete in the spanish league
I have to admit that we were too lax during the last tournament organized in Zaragoza. And as the last responsible of the tournament I regret it.

Anyway we'll keep working on it.
Thanks again for your opinion.
Gruss, HL
Grüß, Hashele.

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Re: Jugger Spain - Falange thread

Beitrag von waldorf » Mi 9. Nov 2011, 10:22

hola alvaro

looks like something is moving in spain, very nice, i like to hear that.
leave the past, you can't change it anyway, try not to do the same "mistakes" in the future, that's good enough.

you know my opinion about the "let them change their jerseys" topic, no! these guys are out, once and forever. the only possibility for them to stay in the community would be a believable break with their fascist background. that could be a way, but a difficult one.

other guys and gals (and not only in spain) with same ideologies should be more careful in the future. i can't look in their heads and don't want to and i am quite sure that the german community got black (brown) sheeps already, but i refuse to play thought police.


as long i'll never find out it is kinda acceptable (actually not).

unfortunately, after this incident, what was a bit like the peak of an iceberg, i can't be sure anymore with what kinda people i share the pitch, but that's life....

greetings to spain

hasta luego

Hx

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Re: Jugger Spain - Falange thread

Beitrag von Siggi » Mi 9. Nov 2011, 10:48

Hello Alvaro (and everybody else),
It must be a very tricky topic in Spain; Germany came a fair way in dealing with it´s fascist
history but things were quite different here. In Spain, Franco lasted much longer and it did
not end with a big bang. As far as I am informed, Franco-Spain is a seriously hot topic for you.

I don´t think a change of clothes will do. Cause it´s not a change of ideologie/ideas.
And by now everbody knows what they stand for.
They WILL take Jugger tournaments as a plattform for their political views. Maybe not right
there, but as you can see they will build on it: the post of falangemurcia is a good example.
Just get into their view: by being a very successful team in Jugger and beating leftist, gay,
black teams they just prove their point. Being better! Supremacy! And then they´ll shop
around for others to join them. To be part of the superior side.
It may sound simple, but that´s the way it works. Propaganda, mate.

Sorry but there is just one way: ban them. They will try and stay in, of couse. They´ll tell you
that it´s a cheap trick to get rid of the "best team" because you can´t beat them on the field.
They´ll challenge your democratic ideas. Maybe they tell you that YOU are fascist.
But remember: they do not share your views. They will just use them to their advantage.

Good luck and stand by your views. Just remember the Franco takeover of your country.
(Oh and this time german support is on you side :ja: )
Achtung: Kommentare können Spuren von Satire & Ironie enthalten. Zynismus nicht ausgeschlossen.

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Re: Jugger Spain - Falange thread

Beitrag von waldorf » Mi 9. Nov 2011, 15:13

hi siggi,
i know you do know, maybe others don't.
not only the franco fascists had support from germany (legion condor etc.) and italy also democratic spain had their friends. let us not forget the brave people fighting in the international brigades
for the freedom of the spanish people and for the freedom of the world they fought and died. unfortunately the enemies been too strong.
remembering these people is remembering that something like fascism must and can be be stopped this time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Raq-Ww1eYGM
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qomfbCY ... re=related
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMBTfaDO ... re=related
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IlAaXwW ... re=related

thanx
Hx

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Re: Jugger Spain - Falange thread

Beitrag von Lemjok » Fr 11. Nov 2011, 18:13

waldorf hat geschrieben:it happened as i thought.
the so called liberal extremism critique.
Thanks, Waldorf, for sparing me the trouble of writing that.

@ Alvaro: I'm looking forward to your story of how the meeting was. Let me underline Siggi's statement and wish you a strong backbone in the coming discussions.
Meine Pompfe ist wichtiger als Deutschland.

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