Headshot penalty?

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SkiF
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Re: Headshot penalty?

Beitrag von SkiF » Mi 21. Nov 2018, 13:42

However, I could say we can close this discussion. Because we already decided to try to play without headshot penalty. Let's see, how will it be.

But in opposit "aktiver Kopfblock" I can give an example when player can hit oppent in head specially to get some benefits (there a lot of trick with hit/push or fake-hit head). And for now your rules allows it. And it won't be too much force, becase there is no frames define which force is too much, which force is not.

So both sides have loopholes for cheaters.
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>>> Jugger in Russia <<<

Ricky
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Re: Headshot penalty?

Beitrag von Ricky » Sa 24. Nov 2018, 18:27

SkiF hat geschrieben:
Mi 21. Nov 2018, 13:42
However, I could say we can close this discussion. Because we already decided to try to play without headshot penalty. Let's see, how will it be.
...like it is for many years now.

be warned: If you come to german tournaments just to fuck with our rules...Tercios did, too.
Pink ist das neue Bunt! Oder Lila. Oder vielleicht auch Dunkelrot mit Goldrand :twisted:

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SkiF
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Re: Headshot penalty?

Beitrag von SkiF » So 25. Nov 2018, 17:52

Ricky hat geschrieben:
Sa 24. Nov 2018, 18:27
...like it is for many years now.

be warned: If you come to german tournaments just to fuck with our rules...Tercios did, too.
Who is Tercios? :)
My travel blog: skif.lince.ru

>>> Jugger in Russia <<<

Becko
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Re: Headshot penalty?

Beitrag von Becko » So 25. Nov 2018, 23:15

SkiF hat geschrieben:
So 25. Nov 2018, 17:52
Who is Tercios? :)
It's a very long story which can be read in this forum, but is better left to tell at a long tournament evening with some beers and loving atmosphere :)

Also the above statement by Ricky might sound somewhat harsh, but be assured nobody is accusing you of searching for ways to "fuck with our rules". Looking forward to see you guys in tournaments :)

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SkiF
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Re: Headshot penalty?

Beitrag von SkiF » Mi 28. Nov 2018, 09:49

Becko hat geschrieben:
So 25. Nov 2018, 23:15

It's a very long story which can be read in this forum, but is better left to tell at a long tournament evening with some beers and loving atmosphere :)

Also the above statement by Ricky might sound somewhat harsh, but be assured nobody is accusing you of searching for ways to "fuck with our rules". Looking forward to see you guys in tournaments :)
Heh, Russian idiom "fuck with something" has absolutelly different meaning. So I just didn't get what Ricky meant before. But after your message I've got :)

Honestly, there is no need to cheat your rulebook, because it delegates almost all decisions up to referee (and organizator's team). It's too abstract to solve problem "as written". I don't want to say it's bad to your community. It's good enough to local community where rules and experience are word of mouth. But inconvinient for international community where each isolated group may interpret it in their own way.

So to understand your rules we actually should visit you to see and feel your experience and your traditions.
My travel blog: skif.lince.ru

>>> Jugger in Russia <<<

Ricky
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Re: Headshot penalty?

Beitrag von Ricky » Mi 28. Nov 2018, 12:57

SkiF hat geschrieben:
Mi 28. Nov 2018, 09:49
So to understand your rules we actually should visit you to see and feel your experience and your traditions.
That's a great idea :)
Usually there is a big international german tournament once a year (like the WCC at ours in September), where many teams from different countries come together, so you can experience our ruleset yourself as well as talk to germans and non-germans about their experiences with our rulebook.

Also there are other international european tournaments (like in Dublin every two years, in Sweden every year,..) with slightly different rulesets, that have been derivated from the german ruleset.
Pink ist das neue Bunt! Oder Lila. Oder vielleicht auch Dunkelrot mit Goldrand :twisted:

J.L.M.
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Re: Headshot penalty?

Beitrag von J.L.M. » Mi 28. Nov 2018, 20:11

SkiF hat geschrieben:
Mi 28. Nov 2018, 09:49
Honestly, there is no need to cheat your rulebook, because it delegates almost all decisions up to referee (and organizator's team).
This opinion really strikes me. I'm now overthinking our rulebook and the whole process of developing it. You should know, that I'm working on this rulebook roughly since summer 2014, and it always was my prime goal, that you shouldn't need referees or organizators to play jugger, but that you easily should be able to play with this ruleset with only your two teams, none of the players refereeing. It was always my opinion that with the rules in mind the players should be able to decide every situation on the field. That is the background of this rulebook. What have I done wrong? :shock:
SkiF hat geschrieben:
Mi 28. Nov 2018, 09:49
It's too abstract to solve problem "as written". I don't want to say it's bad to your community. It's good enough to local community where rules and experience are word of mouth. But inconvinient for international community where each isolated group may interpret it in their own way.
I totally agree, that a rulebook always just works as something you can rely on in your discussions. The ruleset in one's mind ist always better developed and in discussions always stronger than the text, because every text needs interpretation. The reason why in Germany our community in 2018 plays almost exactly the same rules is (i.m.o.) that we often meet on tournaments and have this public developing process of our rules every year.
For an international rulebook you cannot translate one rulebook into many different languages, and it doesn't matter if its the German, the Spanish, or the Australian rulebook. There are completely different goals and audiences you have to have in mind if you think globally. I, personally, think that it is necessary, that every community has to develop its rules for themselves, because mostly they only play against each other. For international tournaments one may think of a new international rulebook, that has to be written on other terms than our "community"-rulebook.
"Nicht Stäbe pompfen Menschen ab, sondern Menschen pompfen Menschen ab." (Max V.)

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Max V.
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Re: Headshot penalty?

Beitrag von Max V. » Do 29. Nov 2018, 16:26

SkiF hat geschrieben:
Mi 28. Nov 2018, 09:49
Honestly, there is no need to cheat your rulebook, because it delegates almost all decisions up to referee (and organizator's team).
J.L.M. hat geschrieben:
Mi 28. Nov 2018, 20:11
That is the background of this rulebook. What have I done wrong?
I think we have a general misunderstanding. We have rules that prohebit dangerous und unfair gameplay. They may be unspecified but they do exist. The German Rules intendes the players to behave according to the rules. If this fails the referees need to step in. This isn't an uncommon approche to rules. Unusal is that most of the behavoir that is rejected isn't explained thoroughly in the rulebook. But again this does not fall in the hands of the refs at first but only if the players on the field fail to play fair and safe.
"[...] und präsentierte sich ihm mit einem Blick über die Schulter, den man wohl als schalkhaft erwartungsvoll bezeichnen musste."

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SkiF
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Re: Headshot penalty?

Beitrag von SkiF » Do 29. Nov 2018, 18:37

Max is right. Sorry for my poor English if I cannot correctly explain what I meant.
I just wanted to say that if some absolutely new group decided to play Jugger, rulebook won't help them make all clear without real person who is already familiar with this. Starting from safe/unsafe equipment and ending precise meaning of "unnecessarily rough".
My travel blog: skif.lince.ru

>>> Jugger in Russia <<<

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