Tercios im Schafspelz

Fragen, Hilfen, Angebote, Anregungen rund ums Juggern
Benutzeravatar
Ole
Beiträge: 649
Registriert: Mo 12. Jan 2009, 14:55
Stadt: Hamburg
Team: Last Man Standing
Position: Laufen.
Wohnort: Hamburg

Re: Tercios im Schafspelz

Beitrag von Ole » Di 4. Sep 2018, 13:40

Not being in Darmstadt, I don't care that much (still do, but to a lesser extent than those who are there I guess), but what astounds me is that basically all ideas on how to enable the disinvited players to still participate come from "the community" and how not one idea has been put forward by those who are affected most, namely said players. That actually kind of bugs me and makes me think about how earnest those players are. If you want to show that you've changed, go ahead and put some ideas on the table on how you want to do this, don't expect others to do it for you. Doing so shows some initiative and therefore some kind of knowing that you've made a mistake. Not doing so - not so much.
Stolzer Teil der "Hochkultur des Grillens und Saufens" (Dank an das Killerkaninchen!)
Entweder ich spiele gut oder ich bin verletzt

Benutzeravatar
Gnom
Beiträge: 1412
Registriert: So 5. Jun 2011, 23:43
Stadt: Berlin
Team: Falco Jugger
Position: Trainer, Gurt

Re: Tercios im Schafspelz

Beitrag von Gnom » Di 4. Sep 2018, 14:09

Marions sugesstion is what WCC organizers had in mind, when originally allowing the 2 TE players on the shunned-list to come.

This being Jugger in Germany, such a decision should at least to be discussed with the community upfront. Therefore this reevaluation under public participation is necessary. As we see, there are a lot of different opinions on this topic.

Benutzeravatar
sairence
Beiträge: 137
Registriert: Mo 4. Feb 2013, 13:25
Stadt: Dublin
Team: Rampage
Position: Stab
Wohnort: Dublin

Re: Tercios im Schafspelz

Beitrag von sairence » Di 4. Sep 2018, 14:12

Haven't been here in a long time, phew...

So I didn't play against them 4 years ago, I only witnessed some of their games. I did participate and follow in the discussions and signed the pledge in the end.

With all respect to Marion, her list of conditions is way too lengthy for me to agree with. I have no interest in jumping through hoops just to give yet another chance to two people who have thrown out the last chance they've gotten. Their apology comes across as more than just a bit hollow, given the timing and the attitudes expressed after the tournament in 2014. It stinks too much of trying to salvage their participation and comes about 4 years too late.

That they have paid for flights and accomodations is really their problem in my opinion. If those two people do show up, I will choose not to play against them.

The rest of the team, that was not involved with Tercios back then, I have no issue with and I hope they come and have a good tournament.

Benutzeravatar
Timme
Beiträge: 159
Registriert: Fr 17. Apr 2009, 11:54
Stadt: Berlin
Team: Rigor Mortis
Position: Langpompfe
Wohnort: Berlin

Re: Tercios im Schafspelz

Beitrag von Timme » Di 4. Sep 2018, 14:56

Asdrúbal FH hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 12:54
and when you say that you think that the spirit of the jugger is fair play ... of course it is, but your refereeing system allows much more than the jugger is dirty. Your jugger allows a player to cheat without any sanction.

Hello Asdrúbal, your post reveals that you have absolut no idea of german jugger. We (or me) don't think that the spirit of jugger is fair play. We KNOW fair play is nessessary (and spirit) for german Jugger. If not we can throw Jugger to garbage and go playing football. Jugger exists for over 20 years in germany. You can call it sport since round about 6 years. In that period there have been countless high niveau and fast playing matches. Of course there have been many discoussions between players and refrees but in the end everyone was okay with the decisions (most times). The german style of Jugger works good! Of cause its not perfect and we know there a parts of the rulebook COULD be better. But the majority of players is lucky with that.
If you (and maybe your team) disagrees it's okay! Everyone is free in his/her opinion. But in that case please stay where you are and play your style of Jugger.
IF you wat to play Jugger in Germany, you should (or maybe have to) accept the spirit and play in that frame.

In the last eleven years i have seen players playing unfair or dangerous BUT i've NEVER witnessed a whole team playing that unfair and dangerous and arrogant as tercios did! Additional i heard rumors about tercio players saying they intentionaly use the "gaps" of german rulebook and intended to f*ck the "german" fairplay spirit. For me its absolutely not accepable.

You wrote "we" a not fair to you. How can your believe to get "fair" dealings after tercios behaviour in 2014 and your texts today?
Visiting another community and saying them "your system sucks and we will show you" is a disgusting behaviour and makes me believe there is no change in your minds since 2014. (and i DON'T talk about your political attidude now)
Asdrúbal FH hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 11:57
can we get a more justice judgment? I mean a Trial by Combat.

I will be the paladin of my team.

[...]
pda: I said it completly in serious, i can got any of you in a Trial by Combat.
That comment is nether funny nor target-aimed. It only shows a picture of a middle-aged mindset.

First i voted for giving your whole team the chance to play at WWC cause i belive in mindchanges but after your posts i wish i could change my voting.

Benutzeravatar
alvaro_verracos
Beiträge: 3
Registriert: Do 30. Aug 2018, 11:58
Stadt: Murcia
Team: Verracos
Position: Stab

Re: Tercios im Schafspelz

Beitrag von alvaro_verracos » Di 4. Sep 2018, 15:31

Please, do not consider Asdrubal's post. It is what happen when you give internet access to a monkey...

Benutzeravatar
Rollin' Uhu
Beiträge: 75
Registriert: Mi 29. Jan 2014, 11:19
Stadt: Bequemes Nest
Team: Deadly Wings of Steeel ExileF.
Position: Schild, Popcorn, Feder
Wohnort: Schweden/Berlin
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Tercios im Schafspelz

Beitrag von Rollin' Uhu » Di 4. Sep 2018, 15:32

Asdrúbal FH hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 11:57
pda: I said it completly in serious, i can got any of you in a Trial by Combat.
Well, this whole discussion is exactly not a question of "Strongest wins".
alvaro_verracos hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 15:31
Please, do not consider Asdrubal's post. It is what happen when you give internet access to a monkey...
Oh okay ... kind of know what you mean ... :mrgreen:
Der Uhu im Popcornmodus, ohne Moderatorenschnickschnack. Oder wenn ihm der Kragen platzt. | Archiv: Internationale Juggerregelwerke

Asdrúbal FH
Beiträge: 8
Registriert: Di 4. Sep 2018, 10:35
Position: ALL

Re: Tercios im Schafspelz

Beitrag von Asdrúbal FH » Di 4. Sep 2018, 15:34

Timme hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 14:56
Asdrúbal FH hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 12:54
and when you say that you think that the spirit of the jugger is fair play ... of course it is, but your refereeing system allows much more than the jugger is dirty. Your jugger allows a player to cheat without any sanction.

Hello Asdrúbal, your post reveals that you have absolut no idea of german jugger. We (or me) don't think that the spirit of jugger is fair play. We KNOW fair play is nessessary (and spirit) for german Jugger. If not we can throw Jugger to garbage and go playing football. Jugger exists for over 20 years in germany. You can call it sport since round about 6 years. In that period there have been countless high niveau and fast playing matches. Of course there have been many discoussions between players and refrees but in the end everyone was okay with the decisions (most times). The german style of Jugger works good! Of cause its not perfect and we know there a parts of the rulebook COULD be better. But the majority of players is lucky with that.
If you (and maybe your team) disagrees it's okay! Everyone is free in his/her opinion. But in that case please stay where you are and play your style of Jugger.
IF you wat to play Jugger in Germany, you should (or maybe have to) accept the spirit and play in that frame.

In the last eleven years i have seen players playing unfair or dangerous BUT i've NEVER witnessed a whole team playing that unfair and dangerous and arrogant as tercios did! Additional i heard rumors about tercio players saying they intentionaly use the "gaps" of german rulebook and intended to f*ck the "german" fairplay spirit. For me its absolutely not accepable.

You wrote "we" a not fair to you. How can your believe to get "fair" dealings after tercios behaviour in 2014 and your texts today?
Visiting another community and saying them "your system sucks and we will show you" is a disgusting behaviour and makes me believe there is no change in your minds since 2014. (and i DON'T talk about your political attidude now)
Asdrúbal FH hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 11:57
can we get a more justice judgment? I mean a Trial by Combat.

I will be the paladin of my team.

[...]
pda: I said it completly in serious, i can got any of you in a Trial by Combat.
That comment is nether funny nor target-aimed. It only shows a picture of a middle-aged mindset.

First i voted for giving your whole team the chance to play at WWC cause i belive in mindchanges but after your posts i wish i could change my voting.
First of all, we aren't Tercios Españoles, when i said "we" i actually say to the mix "Ranjo y los Rajaos". I don't stay in the tournament of 2014.
I don't know how they exactly act, i can say you how now we will act.

second.
Please don't put words in my mouth that i didn't say "Visiting another community and saying them "your system sucks and we will show you"". I'm sorry if you understand that, i only wan to mean, that in spain when you do 4 foults you loose the match, and when you get 8 foults, you are out of the tournament.
anyway if you understand to me saying "Your system sucks" so sorry. i dont want to expresse that, my english bad too, maybe i express without any intention of it.

third.
when i said "discussion between player" i want to mean in all jugger in the world. i don't put diference between communities. we play the same sport.

four.

"IF you wat to play Jugger in Germany, you should (or maybe have to) accept the spirit and play in that frame. " obviusly we will play in that frame.

five.

i didn't want to talk about german or spanish jugger, i want to talk about my friends, i thougth they are good persons and good players. when i mean good player i mean they have fairplay.

i don't know what you understand of my comment but after read you, i think you dont understand to me.

six.

abou trial by combat, guy im just joking, i dont like to be so serious. i know some people will think im a jerk. but i like dont take the things with humor. sorry for try be funny. :S

and so sorry to all people who think i was attack your community, i like german jugger, i want to play germany because of that.

Asdrúbal FH
Beiträge: 8
Registriert: Di 4. Sep 2018, 10:35
Position: ALL

Re: Tercios im Schafspelz

Beitrag von Asdrúbal FH » Di 4. Sep 2018, 15:35

Rollin' Uhu hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 15:32
Asdrúbal FH hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 11:57
pda: I said it completly in serious, i can got any of you in a Trial by Combat.
Well, this whole discussion is exactly not a question of "Strongest wins".
alvaro_verracos hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 15:31
Please, do not consider Asdrubal's post. It is what happen when you give internet access to a monkey...
Oh okay ... kind of know what you mean ... :mrgreen:
I love you Alvaro :)

funkyfrood
Beiträge: 63
Registriert: So 13. Dez 2009, 18:00
Stadt: Berlin
Team: Grünanlagen Guerilla
Position: Langpompfe
Wohnort: Berlin

Re: Tercios im Schafspelz

Beitrag von funkyfrood » Di 4. Sep 2018, 15:44

alvaro_verracos hat geschrieben:
Di 4. Sep 2018, 15:31
Please, do not consider Asdrubal's post. It is what happen when you give internet access to a monkey...
The problem is, that his statements are reflecting the opinion most of the people, who don't want them to come, have. This just confirms my conviction to vote for "NO".

Benutzeravatar
AMBi
Beiträge: 1
Registriert: Di 4. Sep 2018, 13:44
Stadt: Dublin
Team: Rampage
Position: Staff/Chain

Re: Tercios im Schafspelz

Beitrag von AMBi » Di 4. Sep 2018, 15:47

I commend Marion for drawing up conditions in her request to allow them to participate in Darmstadt. Of all people, she was the last person I expected that from.

I see her point in "giving them a chance" since there is nothing currently in place in Germany to reference for these situations. Banning a team from participating in a tournament until they change their ways and 'recognise the spirit of this sport' doesn't actually allow the perpetrator to prove they have turned a corner if they cannot participate in tournaments outside of their own system/Spain.

That said, it's a lot of conditions to put in place for the sake of 2 players. To my mind, it will be a major tension point throughout the entire tournament because their team will be watched like hawks with the mindset that they will behave badly again.

I personally wouldn't accommodate a team that has displayed significant far-right views. On top of that, the player who injured Marion played that way intentionally to take her out and only admitted to it recently in his apology.

This is a small niche community. It's very easy to 'black book' yourself and your teams reputation in it.
I totally get where Thanos is coming from...

Antworten

Zurück zu „Allgemeines“

Wer ist online?

Mitglieder in diesem Forum: 0 Mitglieder und 1 Gast